Okay... being gentle... I suggest you take an honest, open-eyed view of the topic and culture. You voice a bias, present some statistics, then conflate stats with your bias as if you've made the case. You fail to address deep cultural differences, social drivers of violence in general, a growing lack of morals (in the U.S.), a massive influx of 3rd-world/crime-and-violence-prone individuals into the U.S. (and much of Europe), and largely your lack of understanding that's compounded by an apparent lack of any desire to learn about what you disdain. I teach marksmanship training for women. Many mention once having the same bias as yours and it's interesting to see many progress to sport, target and competitive shooting. You might take a class, talk to some women who once shared your views, and maybe learn something new.
Navy Vet...I realize you attempted to be gentle...but I did not read it that way. Certainly there are a whole slew of issues that impact violence. My short post was not intended to be exhaustive...frankly all of my posts are kind of short. We have a difference of opinion. I don't believe this means you are ill-informed, uneducated, etc. So please don't assume I am.
And you're proud of that fact? "We shoot over here in America?" The US has literally gone to hell in a hand basket! The last few years has seen America deteriorate into a much more lawless, immoral, inconsiderate, selfish, violent, ignorant, shameful and pitiful country. There are a whole lot better options than the US right now. How "free" are citizens actually if they can't even feel safe going to the grocery store, browsing the shops at the mall, lounging around at the park or just walking down the street? Weak minded lowlives resort to guns to solve any issues they may possess. Pathetic! Nothing to be proud of....
The reason America has deteriorated is because the Democratic party wants to allow anyone in the country, refuses to prosecute criminals, and punishes law abiding citizens for wanting to protect themselves.
THAT is why you aren't safe "going to the grocery store."
The shittiest places in America are democratically controlled cities. Baltimore, Chigago, DC, NY, Los Angeles, San Fran, and others. The list of cites with the highest gun violence deaths are ALL democratic run cities.
This is true to some extent Nuno. Without tourism, it would be even more difficult I think. Not everyone is trying to take things from you. Many just appreciate your country and culture. The USA takes in more people than anywhere. About government. It's true. They have not treated the Portuguese well. Many governments are not that great.
This is hardly the forum for MAGA/NRA types to boast about their prowess with guns— it’s about living in Portugal as expats, not the “right” of Americans to own enough firepower to kill dozens of people in under three minutes.
Ironically, though, Navy Vet has offered a prime example of one of the reasons some of us are considering becoming expats. The idea that anyone with a few hundred dollars should be allowed to have a gun is nonsense, and requires twisting the meaning of the 2nd Amendment in bizarre ways. I have a friend who has retired from the only “well regulated militia” that allow him to bear arms— he was a lt. colonel in the National Guard.
"Deep cultural differences" is a red herring. There is a direct correlation between # of guns per capita and number of gun deaths per capita in developed countries. This poppycock of an influx of violent immigrants has been spouted again and again for decades, without any kind of evidence. Immigrant populations are less violent than the native stock. One can only teach what one understands. Navy vet may understand violence and guns, but those who shape policy know better from the facts and evidence.
The US sure could take some pointers from other countries on the subject of gun control. The US sure can use all the help they can get in regards to guns
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
Surprised because you have sacred-cow beliefs? I too live in Portugal and also shoot. I am not surprised because I am aware that you may own firearms throughout the EU. The rules are different but please recall, European firearms sports have existed in Europe before the discovery of America.
Given that Europe is much more densely populated and developed. the restrictions on licensure, ownership and use are different. Just as in Highly populated New York State, where deer hunting is not permitted with Rifles. Lots of people and long range bullets don't work.
Most of the rules for licensure are rational here. You need a psych eval. You need a immovable gun safe and must use it. These are both sensible. Annual renewal on the other hand is merely bureaucratic.
Announcing shock exposes your bias. Instead of sitting down and ANALYZING what works and determining what is knee jerk gun-nuts or abolition would actually move things forward. Instead we are stuck...intransigent...which is what people do.
I would be THRILLED if the USA would adopt the "sensible" gun registration, licensure, and storage laws that Portugal (EU) have. How about YOU? You say they are sensible? Do you support such regulations in the USA?
I don't really care that they have a lower rate, that also means they have less freedom, to me. Also, you take out the top 10 worst Ameeican cities, and the US isn't so bad.
Thank you for raising a critical issue once again! Enforcement of current laws is a start. As an individual who was born and raised in Canada, a model for 'sporting firearms' has stood for years. The unlawful ownership of firearms is the underpin to the morbidity and mortality in North America.
Though I can't imagine shooting an animal for sport, I would not infringe on others' right to do so. But I don't think using an automatic weapon is a fair sport and would hope we could agree that there are some arms that should be removed from our marketplace.
So much confusion between automatic and semi automatic. It is very difficult to have a conversation when one party is using completely different terms interchangeably. An automatic fires until you release the trigger, a semi automatic fires 1 bullet per trigger pull.
"Gun" death rates don't mean anything. The UK now has some of the highest death rates by knives, machettes, and bladed weapons. PEOPLE are the problem, not "objects" they use
I have degrees in Social Science and Sociology. I am a retired LEO and am now a real estate investor. I have seen it from the sewers to the high rises. From the dregs to the ivory towers.
Diversity in population without assimilation is the root cause of crime. This is mostly through the natural resentment of one for the other due to the inability or unwillingness to change. and or accept. Crime is also due to the perpetual insistence of the poor to be lifted up to a higher standard of living than they are willing or able to achieve. When the lower don't get there way, they often resort in violent behavior. Our political representatives thank they can fix this by giving them what the don't achieve on their own. OR the politicians promise the have less peoples more money and serveries and often don't follow through because it was either a false promise for votes or the promise was never deliverable. LBJ manipulated our country into slowly becoming a caste system by condemning generation to poverty with the promise of money for kids from mothers with no education and no fathers for the children to look up to. One generation of that class is now pretty much locked into the same life as the previous generation.
Gun control can't fix that problem. Most of the low crime countries are almost always 80 to 90 percent of the same demographic. Neither do they allow immigrants into their country that have no means of self support.
I’m Portuguese and honestly I find it’s best to find out from authorized local gun shop or contact an authorized gun advocate lawyer. They can help to obtain the correct information on what is legal firearms you can transport . The Government in Portugal requires certain permits and licenses for transfers and possession. They recognize that owning and possessing firearms is an important part of being a free country. But unfortunately the Armalite sporting rifles may be the only one that may not qualify. But they do have other options and alternative rifles that are also great for hunting and sporting.
If you're from the rougher areas of Portugal, you'll know Portugal lies A LOT to media.
I've seen countless guns, even AKs, which are completely banned. (There are some loopholes such as removing the automatic mode and registering your AK as a deer hunting rifle)
Portugal is the gateway to Europe. This makes it a prime drop-off location for South American cartels, Moroccan drug dealers, etc...
Pair that with the low wages and high cost of living, police would be inclined to take bribes and turn a blind eye.
What I'm trying to get at is Portugal's government plays down the amount of illegal guns in the country. More than half are illegal, maybe even 2 thirds.
Great Idea! so long as the Citizen-Criminal Remembers the guns in their possession are
for: "hunting, target shooting, pest control, and collecting"
Meanwhile the innocent by-stander that obeys this law pays with their life:
"Self-defense is not considered a legal reason for owning a firearm"
Its the Same Problem that gets ignored over & over with anti-gun logic.
Instead they Lane Change to whatever suits their position, no matter the consequence or sacrifice to the individuals that see 2A not just as a Right, but a responsibility to defend themselves and others if needed.
Nice illustration of causation versus correlation. As a former professor, I used to teach this concept on a regular basis. One aspect of US gun violence that is often omitted in these discussions is the number of gun deaths related to illegal ownership versus legal ownership of guns. A very high proportion of deaths are related to illegal ownership. Better enforcement of current gun laws would go a long way toward reducing the number of gun deaths as opposed to enacting new gun laws. If laws are not enforced, it does not matter how many new laws we enact.
With ghost guns now cheap and readily available, gun laws are simply worthless. The technology has eclipsed legislative solutions. Now the responsibility falls to the people in the inner cities, where the overwhelming amount of violence occurs.
Why the huge affinity for revolvers and bolt action rifles? I just fail to understand why people say semi-automatic when its like calling a car with automatic transmission an automatic car. We just don't say it since most cars are automatic. Now, personally I drive a manual transmission car, and its called a manual, but the reverse is not true for automatics.
Israel has very restrictive gun laws. Ask them about being defenseless when Hamas came in and slaughtered them. A single long gun in each home would have prevented children from being burned to death. I can’t believe a population at such risk wasn’t allowed to protect themselves.
Much more interested in the general assault and murder rates than strictly the "gun" death rates.
I don't like being murdered by knives and blunt objects too, you know.
Okay... being gentle... I suggest you take an honest, open-eyed view of the topic and culture. You voice a bias, present some statistics, then conflate stats with your bias as if you've made the case. You fail to address deep cultural differences, social drivers of violence in general, a growing lack of morals (in the U.S.), a massive influx of 3rd-world/crime-and-violence-prone individuals into the U.S. (and much of Europe), and largely your lack of understanding that's compounded by an apparent lack of any desire to learn about what you disdain. I teach marksmanship training for women. Many mention once having the same bias as yours and it's interesting to see many progress to sport, target and competitive shooting. You might take a class, talk to some women who once shared your views, and maybe learn something new.
Navy Vet...I realize you attempted to be gentle...but I did not read it that way. Certainly there are a whole slew of issues that impact violence. My short post was not intended to be exhaustive...frankly all of my posts are kind of short. We have a difference of opinion. I don't believe this means you are ill-informed, uneducated, etc. So please don't assume I am.
Yeah, seriously you're not going to persuade anyone by calling them ignorant right off the bat.
You live in Portugal now. You can stay there and do your thing. We shoot over here in America.
And you're proud of that fact? "We shoot over here in America?" The US has literally gone to hell in a hand basket! The last few years has seen America deteriorate into a much more lawless, immoral, inconsiderate, selfish, violent, ignorant, shameful and pitiful country. There are a whole lot better options than the US right now. How "free" are citizens actually if they can't even feel safe going to the grocery store, browsing the shops at the mall, lounging around at the park or just walking down the street? Weak minded lowlives resort to guns to solve any issues they may possess. Pathetic! Nothing to be proud of....
The reason America has deteriorated is because the Democratic party wants to allow anyone in the country, refuses to prosecute criminals, and punishes law abiding citizens for wanting to protect themselves.
THAT is why you aren't safe "going to the grocery store."
The shittiest places in America are democratically controlled cities. Baltimore, Chigago, DC, NY, Los Angeles, San Fran, and others. The list of cites with the highest gun violence deaths are ALL democratic run cities.
All caused by one political party. (D)
OMD
Portugal hasn't gotten much better either.
Our government prioritized everyone but us.
"Tourists and immigrants come with money?"
"Let's up the prices of everything, but keep salaries as low as the ones in the balkans, so our citizens can't afford rent!"
This is true to some extent Nuno. Without tourism, it would be even more difficult I think. Not everyone is trying to take things from you. Many just appreciate your country and culture. The USA takes in more people than anywhere. About government. It's true. They have not treated the Portuguese well. Many governments are not that great.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-24-2022?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMjkwNjcyOSwicG9zdF9pZCI6NTY0NjIwODIsIl8iOiJ4KzE0NyIsImlhdCI6MTY1MzQ2MzU4OSwiZXhwIjoxNjUzNDY3MTg5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA1MzMiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.VuC3OOyS-cT-gxqI3Xp81NJBs4YUooUMIE2D95D43uo&s=r
This is hardly the forum for MAGA/NRA types to boast about their prowess with guns— it’s about living in Portugal as expats, not the “right” of Americans to own enough firepower to kill dozens of people in under three minutes.
Ironically, though, Navy Vet has offered a prime example of one of the reasons some of us are considering becoming expats. The idea that anyone with a few hundred dollars should be allowed to have a gun is nonsense, and requires twisting the meaning of the 2nd Amendment in bizarre ways. I have a friend who has retired from the only “well regulated militia” that allow him to bear arms— he was a lt. colonel in the National Guard.
Portugal, at least, remains sane…
"Deep cultural differences" is a red herring. There is a direct correlation between # of guns per capita and number of gun deaths per capita in developed countries. This poppycock of an influx of violent immigrants has been spouted again and again for decades, without any kind of evidence. Immigrant populations are less violent than the native stock. One can only teach what one understands. Navy vet may understand violence and guns, but those who shape policy know better from the facts and evidence.
BS from rightwing radio.
The US sure could take some pointers from other countries on the subject of gun control. The US sure can use all the help they can get in regards to guns
arguably one of the dumbest comments on here..
Jon Zack
13 mins ago
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
Surprised because you have sacred-cow beliefs? I too live in Portugal and also shoot. I am not surprised because I am aware that you may own firearms throughout the EU. The rules are different but please recall, European firearms sports have existed in Europe before the discovery of America.
Given that Europe is much more densely populated and developed. the restrictions on licensure, ownership and use are different. Just as in Highly populated New York State, where deer hunting is not permitted with Rifles. Lots of people and long range bullets don't work.
Most of the rules for licensure are rational here. You need a psych eval. You need a immovable gun safe and must use it. These are both sensible. Annual renewal on the other hand is merely bureaucratic.
Announcing shock exposes your bias. Instead of sitting down and ANALYZING what works and determining what is knee jerk gun-nuts or abolition would actually move things forward. Instead we are stuck...intransigent...which is what people do.
I would be THRILLED if the USA would adopt the "sensible" gun registration, licensure, and storage laws that Portugal (EU) have. How about YOU? You say they are sensible? Do you support such regulations in the USA?
I don't really care that they have a lower rate, that also means they have less freedom, to me. Also, you take out the top 10 worst Ameeican cities, and the US isn't so bad.
Thank you for raising a critical issue once again! Enforcement of current laws is a start. As an individual who was born and raised in Canada, a model for 'sporting firearms' has stood for years. The unlawful ownership of firearms is the underpin to the morbidity and mortality in North America.
Though I can't imagine shooting an animal for sport, I would not infringe on others' right to do so. But I don't think using an automatic weapon is a fair sport and would hope we could agree that there are some arms that should be removed from our marketplace.
Hunters agree with you, which is why automatic weapons are not used for hunting.
So much confusion between automatic and semi automatic. It is very difficult to have a conversation when one party is using completely different terms interchangeably. An automatic fires until you release the trigger, a semi automatic fires 1 bullet per trigger pull.
"Gun" death rates don't mean anything. The UK now has some of the highest death rates by knives, machettes, and bladed weapons. PEOPLE are the problem, not "objects" they use
I have degrees in Social Science and Sociology. I am a retired LEO and am now a real estate investor. I have seen it from the sewers to the high rises. From the dregs to the ivory towers.
Diversity in population without assimilation is the root cause of crime. This is mostly through the natural resentment of one for the other due to the inability or unwillingness to change. and or accept. Crime is also due to the perpetual insistence of the poor to be lifted up to a higher standard of living than they are willing or able to achieve. When the lower don't get there way, they often resort in violent behavior. Our political representatives thank they can fix this by giving them what the don't achieve on their own. OR the politicians promise the have less peoples more money and serveries and often don't follow through because it was either a false promise for votes or the promise was never deliverable. LBJ manipulated our country into slowly becoming a caste system by condemning generation to poverty with the promise of money for kids from mothers with no education and no fathers for the children to look up to. One generation of that class is now pretty much locked into the same life as the previous generation.
Gun control can't fix that problem. Most of the low crime countries are almost always 80 to 90 percent of the same demographic. Neither do they allow immigrants into their country that have no means of self support.
I’m Portuguese and honestly I find it’s best to find out from authorized local gun shop or contact an authorized gun advocate lawyer. They can help to obtain the correct information on what is legal firearms you can transport . The Government in Portugal requires certain permits and licenses for transfers and possession. They recognize that owning and possessing firearms is an important part of being a free country. But unfortunately the Armalite sporting rifles may be the only one that may not qualify. But they do have other options and alternative rifles that are also great for hunting and sporting.
If you're from the rougher areas of Portugal, you'll know Portugal lies A LOT to media.
I've seen countless guns, even AKs, which are completely banned. (There are some loopholes such as removing the automatic mode and registering your AK as a deer hunting rifle)
Portugal is the gateway to Europe. This makes it a prime drop-off location for South American cartels, Moroccan drug dealers, etc...
Pair that with the low wages and high cost of living, police would be inclined to take bribes and turn a blind eye.
What I'm trying to get at is Portugal's government plays down the amount of illegal guns in the country. More than half are illegal, maybe even 2 thirds.
Thanks for the add. Learning more about Portugal and will visit next yr to see if we can find a small town that suits us.
Great Idea! so long as the Citizen-Criminal Remembers the guns in their possession are
for: "hunting, target shooting, pest control, and collecting"
Meanwhile the innocent by-stander that obeys this law pays with their life:
"Self-defense is not considered a legal reason for owning a firearm"
Its the Same Problem that gets ignored over & over with anti-gun logic.
Instead they Lane Change to whatever suits their position, no matter the consequence or sacrifice to the individuals that see 2A not just as a Right, but a responsibility to defend themselves and others if needed.
Great article filled with facts! I can only hope that things will improve in the United States!
My hope is that we find a way to work together and the logjam in the Senate is lifted.
Nice illustration of causation versus correlation. As a former professor, I used to teach this concept on a regular basis. One aspect of US gun violence that is often omitted in these discussions is the number of gun deaths related to illegal ownership versus legal ownership of guns. A very high proportion of deaths are related to illegal ownership. Better enforcement of current gun laws would go a long way toward reducing the number of gun deaths as opposed to enacting new gun laws. If laws are not enforced, it does not matter how many new laws we enact.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-24-2022?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMjkwNjcyOSwicG9zdF9pZCI6NTY0NjIwODIsIl8iOiJ4KzE0NyIsImlhdCI6MTY1MzQ2MzU4OSwiZXhwIjoxNjUzNDY3MTg5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA1MzMiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.VuC3OOyS-cT-gxqI3Xp81NJBs4YUooUMIE2D95D43uo&s=r
While I agree that illegal gun ownership is a problem, I would hope we could do more.
With ghost guns now cheap and readily available, gun laws are simply worthless. The technology has eclipsed legislative solutions. Now the responsibility falls to the people in the inner cities, where the overwhelming amount of violence occurs.
Uvalde is inner city now? Gun laws are worthless, though all the evidence shows they actually prevent mass killings? https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2021/03/assault-weapon-ban-significantly-reduces-mass-shooting/
Why the huge affinity for revolvers and bolt action rifles? I just fail to understand why people say semi-automatic when its like calling a car with automatic transmission an automatic car. We just don't say it since most cars are automatic. Now, personally I drive a manual transmission car, and its called a manual, but the reverse is not true for automatics.
Israel has very restrictive gun laws. Ask them about being defenseless when Hamas came in and slaughtered them. A single long gun in each home would have prevented children from being burned to death. I can’t believe a population at such risk wasn’t allowed to protect themselves.