Okay... being gentle... I suggest you take an honest, open-eyed view of the topic and culture. You voice a bias, present some statistics, then conflate stats with your bias as if you've made the case. You fail to address deep cultural differences, social drivers of violence in general, a growing lack of morals (in the U.S.), a massive influx of 3rd-world/crime-and-violence-prone individuals into the U.S. (and much of Europe), and largely your lack of understanding that's compounded by an apparent lack of any desire to learn about what you disdain. I teach marksmanship training for women. Many mention once having the same bias as yours and it's interesting to see many progress to sport, target and competitive shooting. You might take a class, talk to some women who once shared your views, and maybe learn something new.
Navy Vet...I realize you attempted to be gentle...but I did not read it that way. Certainly there are a whole slew of issues that impact violence. My short post was not intended to be exhaustive...frankly all of my posts are kind of short. We have a difference of opinion. I don't believe this means you are ill-informed, uneducated, etc. So please don't assume I am.
And you're proud of that fact? "We shoot over here in America?" The US has literally gone to hell in a hand basket! The last few years has seen America deteriorate into a much more lawless, immoral, inconsiderate, selfish, violent, ignorant, shameful and pitiful country. There are a whole lot better options than the US right now. How "free" are citizens actually if they can't even feel safe going to the grocery store, browsing the shops at the mall, lounging around at the park or just walking down the street? Weak minded lowlives resort to guns to solve any issues they may possess. Pathetic! Nothing to be proud of....
The reason America has deteriorated is because the Democratic party wants to allow anyone in the country, refuses to prosecute criminals, and punishes law abiding citizens for wanting to protect themselves.
THAT is why you aren't safe "going to the grocery store."
The shittiest places in America are democratically controlled cities. Baltimore, Chigago, DC, NY, Los Angeles, San Fran, and others. The list of cites with the highest gun violence deaths are ALL democratic run cities.
This is true to some extent Nuno. Without tourism, it would be even more difficult I think. Not everyone is trying to take things from you. Many just appreciate your country and culture. The USA takes in more people than anywhere. About government. It's true. They have not treated the Portuguese well. Many governments are not that great.
"Deep cultural differences" is a red herring. There is a direct correlation between # of guns per capita and number of gun deaths per capita in developed countries. This poppycock of an influx of violent immigrants has been spouted again and again for decades, without any kind of evidence. Immigrant populations are less violent than the native stock. One can only teach what one understands. Navy vet may understand violence and guns, but those who shape policy know better from the facts and evidence.
The US sure could take some pointers from other countries on the subject of gun control. The US sure can use all the help they can get in regards to guns
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
I don't really care that they have a lower rate, that also means they have less freedom, to me. Also, you take out the top 10 worst Ameeican cities, and the US isn't so bad.
Surprised because you have sacred-cow beliefs? I too live in Portugal and also shoot. I am not surprised because I am aware that you may own firearms throughout the EU. The rules are different but please recall, European firearms sports have existed in Europe before the discovery of America.
Given that Europe is much more densely populated and developed. the restrictions on licensure, ownership and use are different. Just as in Highly populated New York State, where deer hunting is not permitted with Rifles. Lots of people and long range bullets don't work.
Most of the rules for licensure are rational here. You need a psych eval. You need a immovable gun safe and must use it. These are both sensible. Annual renewal on the other hand is merely bureaucratic.
Announcing shock exposes your bias. Instead of sitting down and ANALYZING what works and determining what is knee jerk gun-nuts or abolition would actually move things forward. Instead we are stuck...intransigent...which is what people do.
I would be THRILLED if the USA would adopt the "sensible" gun registration, licensure, and storage laws that Portugal (EU) have. How about YOU? You say they are sensible? Do you support such regulations in the USA?
Countries with restrictive guns laws do have fewer gun deaths...they kill in different ways, knives, bombs, vehicles even nare hands. When someone is messed up enough, or hates you greatly they will find a way.
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
I just went out shooting with my son for the first time. For sport. I have no violent tendency. I think there are many people who feel it is their right to own a gun. The problem lies with the culture I believe. And mental health. Mental health in the US has declined drastically. Yes, there are other factors, but I am not sure if it is the guns... I think Portugal does have a good system though in this..
I seem to remember a National Geographic article. The writer interviewed several gang members and criminals in some slum area where the cops won’t go. Everyone had a gun of some type. In Portugal. In the us? Left wing- “ let’s disarm those trump supporters!” Right wing? “ let’s disarm blacks and Hispanics and Muslims!” Yes, there are too many guns available, but I can’t depend on the police to protect me. Hence, I have a concealed carry license. There were hardly ANY assaults on anyone when I was a kid. You would get locked up for 10-20 years on your FIRST offense! Not anymore! We need a heavy handed approach to violent crime. Like lock them up at hard labor for a long time.
"Gun" death rates don't mean anything. The UK now has some of the highest death rates by knives, machettes, and bladed weapons. PEOPLE are the problem, not "objects" they use
I have degrees in Social Science and Sociology. I am a retired LEO and am now a real estate investor. I have seen it from the sewers to the high rises. From the dregs to the ivory towers.
Diversity in population without assimilation is the root cause of crime. This is mostly through the natural resentment of one for the other due to the inability or unwillingness to change. and or accept. Crime is also due to the perpetual insistence of the poor to be lifted up to a higher standard of living than they are willing or able to achieve. When the lower don't get there way, they often resort in violent behavior. Our political representatives thank they can fix this by giving them what the don't achieve on their own. OR the politicians promise the have less peoples more money and serveries and often don't follow through because it was either a false promise for votes or the promise was never deliverable. LBJ manipulated our country into slowly becoming a caste system by condemning generation to poverty with the promise of money for kids from mothers with no education and no fathers for the children to look up to. One generation of that class is now pretty much locked into the same life as the previous generation.
Gun control can't fix that problem. Most of the low crime countries are almost always 80 to 90 percent of the same demographic. Neither do they allow immigrants into their country that have no means of self support.
Small correction, certain types of semi-automatics are legal in the UK.
e.g. a Semi-auto shotgun, or a .22LR semi auto rifle. Despite popular belief, handguns are legal however they have to be a certain length which rules out almost all handguns except for long barrel revolvers and semi-auto pistols with fixed wrist braces.
I’m Portuguese and honestly I find it’s best to find out from authorized local gun shop or contact an authorized gun advocate lawyer. They can help to obtain the correct information on what is legal firearms you can transport . The Government in Portugal requires certain permits and licenses for transfers and possession. They recognize that owning and possessing firearms is an important part of being a free country. But unfortunately the Armalite sporting rifles may be the only one that may not qualify. But they do have other options and alternative rifles that are also great for hunting and sporting.
If you're from the rougher areas of Portugal, you'll know Portugal lies A LOT to media.
I've seen countless guns, even AKs, which are completely banned. (There are some loopholes such as removing the automatic mode and registering your AK as a deer hunting rifle)
Portugal is the gateway to Europe. This makes it a prime drop-off location for South American cartels, Moroccan drug dealers, etc...
Pair that with the low wages and high cost of living, police would be inclined to take bribes and turn a blind eye.
What I'm trying to get at is Portugal's government plays down the amount of illegal guns in the country. More than half are illegal, maybe even 2 thirds.
Much more interested in the general assault and murder rates than strictly the "gun" death rates.
I don't like being murdered by knives and blunt objects too, you know.
Okay... being gentle... I suggest you take an honest, open-eyed view of the topic and culture. You voice a bias, present some statistics, then conflate stats with your bias as if you've made the case. You fail to address deep cultural differences, social drivers of violence in general, a growing lack of morals (in the U.S.), a massive influx of 3rd-world/crime-and-violence-prone individuals into the U.S. (and much of Europe), and largely your lack of understanding that's compounded by an apparent lack of any desire to learn about what you disdain. I teach marksmanship training for women. Many mention once having the same bias as yours and it's interesting to see many progress to sport, target and competitive shooting. You might take a class, talk to some women who once shared your views, and maybe learn something new.
Navy Vet...I realize you attempted to be gentle...but I did not read it that way. Certainly there are a whole slew of issues that impact violence. My short post was not intended to be exhaustive...frankly all of my posts are kind of short. We have a difference of opinion. I don't believe this means you are ill-informed, uneducated, etc. So please don't assume I am.
You live in Portugal now. You can stay there and do your thing. We shoot over here in America.
And you're proud of that fact? "We shoot over here in America?" The US has literally gone to hell in a hand basket! The last few years has seen America deteriorate into a much more lawless, immoral, inconsiderate, selfish, violent, ignorant, shameful and pitiful country. There are a whole lot better options than the US right now. How "free" are citizens actually if they can't even feel safe going to the grocery store, browsing the shops at the mall, lounging around at the park or just walking down the street? Weak minded lowlives resort to guns to solve any issues they may possess. Pathetic! Nothing to be proud of....
The reason America has deteriorated is because the Democratic party wants to allow anyone in the country, refuses to prosecute criminals, and punishes law abiding citizens for wanting to protect themselves.
THAT is why you aren't safe "going to the grocery store."
The shittiest places in America are democratically controlled cities. Baltimore, Chigago, DC, NY, Los Angeles, San Fran, and others. The list of cites with the highest gun violence deaths are ALL democratic run cities.
All caused by one political party. (D)
OMD
Portugal hasn't gotten much better either.
Our government prioritized everyone but us.
"Tourists and immigrants come with money?"
"Let's up the prices of everything, but keep salaries as low as the ones in the balkans, so our citizens can't afford rent!"
This is true to some extent Nuno. Without tourism, it would be even more difficult I think. Not everyone is trying to take things from you. Many just appreciate your country and culture. The USA takes in more people than anywhere. About government. It's true. They have not treated the Portuguese well. Many governments are not that great.
Yeah, seriously you're not going to persuade anyone by calling them ignorant right off the bat.
"Deep cultural differences" is a red herring. There is a direct correlation between # of guns per capita and number of gun deaths per capita in developed countries. This poppycock of an influx of violent immigrants has been spouted again and again for decades, without any kind of evidence. Immigrant populations are less violent than the native stock. One can only teach what one understands. Navy vet may understand violence and guns, but those who shape policy know better from the facts and evidence.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/may-24-2022?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMjkwNjcyOSwicG9zdF9pZCI6NTY0NjIwODIsIl8iOiJ4KzE0NyIsImlhdCI6MTY1MzQ2MzU4OSwiZXhwIjoxNjUzNDY3MTg5LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMjA1MzMiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.VuC3OOyS-cT-gxqI3Xp81NJBs4YUooUMIE2D95D43uo&s=r
The US sure could take some pointers from other countries on the subject of gun control. The US sure can use all the help they can get in regards to guns
arguably one of the dumbest comments on here..
Jon Zack
13 mins ago
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
I don't really care that they have a lower rate, that also means they have less freedom, to me. Also, you take out the top 10 worst Ameeican cities, and the US isn't so bad.
Surprised because you have sacred-cow beliefs? I too live in Portugal and also shoot. I am not surprised because I am aware that you may own firearms throughout the EU. The rules are different but please recall, European firearms sports have existed in Europe before the discovery of America.
Given that Europe is much more densely populated and developed. the restrictions on licensure, ownership and use are different. Just as in Highly populated New York State, where deer hunting is not permitted with Rifles. Lots of people and long range bullets don't work.
Most of the rules for licensure are rational here. You need a psych eval. You need a immovable gun safe and must use it. These are both sensible. Annual renewal on the other hand is merely bureaucratic.
Announcing shock exposes your bias. Instead of sitting down and ANALYZING what works and determining what is knee jerk gun-nuts or abolition would actually move things forward. Instead we are stuck...intransigent...which is what people do.
I would be THRILLED if the USA would adopt the "sensible" gun registration, licensure, and storage laws that Portugal (EU) have. How about YOU? You say they are sensible? Do you support such regulations in the USA?
Countries with restrictive guns laws do have fewer gun deaths...they kill in different ways, knives, bombs, vehicles even nare hands. When someone is messed up enough, or hates you greatly they will find a way.
I agree Phil. If you take suicide and gang violence out or take away like 5 neighborhoods the stats go way way way down. There's not a gun problem there's a mental illness/gang/socioeconomic problem.
I just went out shooting with my son for the first time. For sport. I have no violent tendency. I think there are many people who feel it is their right to own a gun. The problem lies with the culture I believe. And mental health. Mental health in the US has declined drastically. Yes, there are other factors, but I am not sure if it is the guns... I think Portugal does have a good system though in this..
You might try John Lotts research. Also check out genocides and gun control. Registration leads to confiscation. History has proven that.
I seem to remember a National Geographic article. The writer interviewed several gang members and criminals in some slum area where the cops won’t go. Everyone had a gun of some type. In Portugal. In the us? Left wing- “ let’s disarm those trump supporters!” Right wing? “ let’s disarm blacks and Hispanics and Muslims!” Yes, there are too many guns available, but I can’t depend on the police to protect me. Hence, I have a concealed carry license. There were hardly ANY assaults on anyone when I was a kid. You would get locked up for 10-20 years on your FIRST offense! Not anymore! We need a heavy handed approach to violent crime. Like lock them up at hard labor for a long time.
"Gun" death rates don't mean anything. The UK now has some of the highest death rates by knives, machettes, and bladed weapons. PEOPLE are the problem, not "objects" they use
I have degrees in Social Science and Sociology. I am a retired LEO and am now a real estate investor. I have seen it from the sewers to the high rises. From the dregs to the ivory towers.
Diversity in population without assimilation is the root cause of crime. This is mostly through the natural resentment of one for the other due to the inability or unwillingness to change. and or accept. Crime is also due to the perpetual insistence of the poor to be lifted up to a higher standard of living than they are willing or able to achieve. When the lower don't get there way, they often resort in violent behavior. Our political representatives thank they can fix this by giving them what the don't achieve on their own. OR the politicians promise the have less peoples more money and serveries and often don't follow through because it was either a false promise for votes or the promise was never deliverable. LBJ manipulated our country into slowly becoming a caste system by condemning generation to poverty with the promise of money for kids from mothers with no education and no fathers for the children to look up to. One generation of that class is now pretty much locked into the same life as the previous generation.
Gun control can't fix that problem. Most of the low crime countries are almost always 80 to 90 percent of the same demographic. Neither do they allow immigrants into their country that have no means of self support.
Small correction, certain types of semi-automatics are legal in the UK.
e.g. a Semi-auto shotgun, or a .22LR semi auto rifle. Despite popular belief, handguns are legal however they have to be a certain length which rules out almost all handguns except for long barrel revolvers and semi-auto pistols with fixed wrist braces.
I’m Portuguese and honestly I find it’s best to find out from authorized local gun shop or contact an authorized gun advocate lawyer. They can help to obtain the correct information on what is legal firearms you can transport . The Government in Portugal requires certain permits and licenses for transfers and possession. They recognize that owning and possessing firearms is an important part of being a free country. But unfortunately the Armalite sporting rifles may be the only one that may not qualify. But they do have other options and alternative rifles that are also great for hunting and sporting.
If you're from the rougher areas of Portugal, you'll know Portugal lies A LOT to media.
I've seen countless guns, even AKs, which are completely banned. (There are some loopholes such as removing the automatic mode and registering your AK as a deer hunting rifle)
Portugal is the gateway to Europe. This makes it a prime drop-off location for South American cartels, Moroccan drug dealers, etc...
Pair that with the low wages and high cost of living, police would be inclined to take bribes and turn a blind eye.
What I'm trying to get at is Portugal's government plays down the amount of illegal guns in the country. More than half are illegal, maybe even 2 thirds.
Thanks for the add. Learning more about Portugal and will visit next yr to see if we can find a small town that suits us.