We moved from Oregon to Spain in 2016 with the plan to stay “forever.” In 2022 we moved to Portugal. (We’re keeping the remote property in Spain until after the election so our kids have a place to run to if needed.) With 4 adult kids, and 3 grandkids in the States we feel that pull from time to time, but we can’t afford to live near any of them (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and LA), and we cannot imagine returning to a country that no longer feels safe or comfortable to us. My husband is 11 years older than I am; there’s a real possibility I’ll be on my own at some point. My plan…relocate within Portugal to a slightly more urban area (currently we live in a small village in Alentejo), where I’ll have more convenient services and a larger community. But for now I couldn’t be happier.
Great post!! Ah, the “gravitational pull” of grandbabies—left all that to my brother, who was the breeder of the family. I had no kids, therefore no grandbabies—no worries. No partner; husband passed on—free as I’ll ever be from now on.
Don’t plan to return to the US to live ‘cos don’t think I can AFFORD to. Like your second couple, I’m renting a furnished apartment and have no car, take the marvelous Porto public transportation and Uber/Bolt. Trips farther afield will require trains, planes or automobiles, but that can be planned for. Just got my residence card, so now I can travel a bit.
Love PT, the people, the polyglot of expats from everywhere, the pilgrims humping their backpacks along the coastal sidewalk and the ocean view from my veranda. Only fly in my ointment is what I’ll do when my lease is up March of ‘25(!?!)
Thanks so much for your posts, they’ve covered many things that I was stupidly unaware of—wish you and Denise well and happy!
There’s another option: move to a more favorable EU country. There are amazing places to live where life is cheaper than Portugal (Spain has higher salaries and outside big cities and touristy sea towns, prices are super low. Ditto for Calabria, Friuli, in Italy, Romania and Bulgaria, and all the Balkans). “Digital Nomads” are already leaving a country that is becoming increasingly expensive. Healthcare is so poor even in private hospital, for instance, some prefer to fly abroad 🫠
You are correct, one can move to another country and in western Europe Spain is now the cheapest country. I will however disagree with your comment on healthcare. I have only utilized the private system ... but have received exceptional care and superior outcomes.
I think it is because in general I notice europeans are more attached to "their" healthcare system, and frequently prefer to travel back to their place of origin for it.
Hi Nancy — what a great post! I think about this from time to time, but not because I think I will “want” to leave but because of the possibility of development of major illnesses and needing help from family, but I am getting more and more confident in the healthcare we receive in this country in terms of quality and for sure cost! The one thing I do not have a grasp on yet is how much our income may decrease when we hit the 10year mark for our D7 Visa. I worry we will be paying almost 50% in taxes which would negate the benefits of living here cost wise. I’m just so unfamiliar about how our income would be taxed after the 10 yr period. However, since we’ve only been here two years I just enjoy my life and think a hell of a lot could happen in the next eight years and “I’ll worry about that tomorrow.” Meanwhile, I live in this beautiful country with wonderful people and have so little stress many of my US illnesses have completely disappeared. So although an exit strategy is always somewhere lurking around the periphery, I’m going to enjoy every second of the privilege I have been given to live in a country I love and I’m certain we will work out whatever comes in the future. And besides, being from the US, after November, there may be no country to return to if a certain evil person is installed in office.
I have written about income taxes (after NHR) but here is the answer in a nutshell. https://expatinportugal.substack.com/p/tax-planning Pensions, other than a military pension, and social security will be taxed as ordinary income governed by Portugal's progressive tax scheme. Income from investments (such as capital gains and dividends) will be taxed at 28%. Your tax rate in PT will likely be considerably more than what you might owe in the US and as such I have adjusted for that when calculating what our cost of living will be after NHR.
This is a very timely post, thank you. I now find myself in the "I'm moving back to the US" group. But not for any of the usual reasons. I am living with ALS, a degenerative disease which is slowly getting worse, and I now need more care. When we moved here to Tavira, my wife was going to be my caregiver. Unfortunately, she was killed in an automobile accident while in the US in 2022 on vacation. I have been living by myself in our two-bedroom apartment and have recently found that I need more help. I have someone coming to me twice each day to make me my meals and help me with other things such as hygiene and getting out. And I know that I will need even more care in the future and so I will be moving back and living with my daughter and her family in Florida. As a veteran I have access to all kinds of support from the VA, which will be a huge help. I would much rather be able to stay here and live out my days in these peaceful and safe surroundings. And even though the cost of living is rising it is still cheaper here than back in the US. I will always consider Portugal to be my second home.
I don't think we will return, but it's a good question to ponder. The thought of going back to the US is frightening, considering all the unpleasant and scary goings-on, but most importantly, I've fallen deeply in love with Portugal.
Many years ago, I took a leave of absence from my tenure track position and moved to Portugal to try it out. I had spent several summers touring the country, as my family was living there. I knew, however, that summer vacation was not the same as living there permanently.
I stayed for a year, had wonderful experiences and decided that I would return after fulfilling my promise to return to the States.
I did so, returned to the States, sold my car and came back after that second year. I was fortunate that I always worked in Portugal and made many long time friends this way.
I finally left Portugal after 16 years, largely because I wanted to live nearer family, but doubt I would have had such a good experience if I had not had that “experimental” first year. So, don’t be afraid to try it out, for an extended period. Many of the complaints I see in various other Portugal groups are about weather. It’s important to experience the seasons before making such a big commitment, imo.
Wise words...Although when I first saw the title of this post I thought you might be referencing an Exit strategy from the U.S. in the event that 45 ends up in the White House again. I bet I wasn't the only one who went there. I am among the hordes of U.S. citizens who are thinking about, if not actually strategizing, that Exit plan.
Another fantastic post. We are fortunate that our little family is past the grand-BABY stage and the girls are boarding a SATA flight in a couple of weeks (first time without their parents) to visit us here. Direct flights from JFK to Madeira make family visits easy. We have, however, met a few people who have reached the end of their Non-Habitual Resident Tax Status and have moved out of Portugal - mostly to other European destinations, though, not the US. Thanks for posting.
Great post, as usual. It is important to think about these things, and how you might react to those changes over time. We only have 1 child and we will be encouraging him to attend college in Dublin while we retire to Portugal - most likely somewhere along the silver coast. Our hope is that going to school there he will create friendships, relationships and work connections that will keep him on the correct side of the Atlantic to be near us. It's easier for me as an only - I don't have siblings to feel connected to, by husband has 3 siblings, but Covid really changed how and how often they see each other. So that will make it easier. Everyone needs to ask these questions of themselves and be prepared for the answer and have a plan.
Love this article. I will die here. The door to my previous life in South Africa is bolted closed and the bridges burnt by me. I have embraced this life, learning Portuguese, my son is here,. Edest son and family are now in UK. Youngest son lives in Caribbean. What we had in South Africa are now memories. South Africa has changed and nit for the best.
We refer to Portugal as “the next chapter,” but not necessarily the last chapter of our lives, and are keeping a foothold in our home state (WA). One thing that has changed since I began treatment for breast cancer is our plans for healthcare coverage in the US. We’re now rethinking our budget to make sure we are well covered no matter where we are.
Sim ja pensei, but im sticking to it. I was born here, left at 5, now back at 63 renovating the sncestral home, so maybe not realy an expat just a returnee. I have however a lifetime of cultural divergence, but still weighing everything out, the peace and safety here tips the scales for me, no exit stratagee, going down with the ship if I have too
I think about this almost every day, but not because we have any desire to return to a a nation of deep divisions. We have no idea what we will do if (when) either of us needs skilled care or cannot live independently. Where could we go? We are exploring facilities here in PT, but mostly it's just nursing homes. There may be a few assisted living places. We have as yet to check them out.
Penelope we live in Algarve. During a PT visit I learned that there is an "English home" in central Algarve. When I asked what this was the physical therapist's explanation sounded very much like a progressive care facility in the US offering cottages, apartments, skilled nursing care, etc. She commented that it was very expensive. When I inquired further she explained that some residents were paying €6000/mo...very expensive by PT standards, very cheap by US standards. I suspect there is more than one such facility in PT. One also might consider bringing a full-time carer into your home. Denise and I considered this when we designed our home as the thought of going into a nursing home does not appeal to us.
Thanks, Nancy. Definitely in-home care is attractive. We are renting a 720 sq ft country house, so it could be a tight fit. If the need arises, we could rent a 2 bdrm 2 bath in town with elevator. I am collecting data on potential senior communities, and we might start visiting some in coming years.
This. We don't have a great exit strategy, but we do have one. It's one of the reasons I was able to cull as much as we did before coming here - imagining having to move everything we owned round trip, overseas, was a sobering thought (not just financially) and we decided it was not something we were interested in doing. We purged our lifetimes' worth of belongings like mad and still brought what feels like (probably more than) a decent amount. But, there's something to be said for not having to re-acquire all the things you might need, regardless of where you end up.
There have been several folks living in our town who have left in the past year, all of whom were never expecting to leave. I can't begin to know how hard that decision must have been for them. As for us, if we do end up having to leave, we are certain about one thing: the real estate market in our old area guarantees we can't "go home again".
I appreciate your can't "go home again" sentiment. However, I take some comfort from the CA housing market which over time has seen significant highs and LOWS.
Same with us, sold the condo, opted out of acquiring a storage unit and brought the things we were sentimentally attached to along with us. We refuse to commit to staying or going at this point (it’s been just over a year), so we have a loose plan for if we decide that we want to move back to the US, but right now we have no intention of using it.
Good point, but no real exit strategy for us and no real desire to return to the U.S. When we moved to PT in 2020 we had already been out of the States for 5 years, so we pretty much knew we weren't going back. We have an east/west grandbaby pull, one in Mallorca, ES and the other in Austin, TX, not to mention another son in Portland, OR. We do still have a house in Lake Havasu, AZ that my wife inherited from her mother in 2018 which we use for about 6 weeks a year. Luckily all the boomers retiring there have lead to increased value that has more than covered the carrying cost. At some point in the next 5-10 years we will sell it to buy a place in Mallorca, where our daughter had said she would take care of us.
I’m in Valencia and I love it here, but we’ve been to Mallorca a few times and I keep telling my husband that we may “need” to move over there. I grew up on an island, so I think it’s always a bit of a pull for me.
We moved from Oregon to Spain in 2016 with the plan to stay “forever.” In 2022 we moved to Portugal. (We’re keeping the remote property in Spain until after the election so our kids have a place to run to if needed.) With 4 adult kids, and 3 grandkids in the States we feel that pull from time to time, but we can’t afford to live near any of them (Seattle, Portland, San Francisco and LA), and we cannot imagine returning to a country that no longer feels safe or comfortable to us. My husband is 11 years older than I am; there’s a real possibility I’ll be on my own at some point. My plan…relocate within Portugal to a slightly more urban area (currently we live in a small village in Alentejo), where I’ll have more convenient services and a larger community. But for now I couldn’t be happier.
Great post!! Ah, the “gravitational pull” of grandbabies—left all that to my brother, who was the breeder of the family. I had no kids, therefore no grandbabies—no worries. No partner; husband passed on—free as I’ll ever be from now on.
Don’t plan to return to the US to live ‘cos don’t think I can AFFORD to. Like your second couple, I’m renting a furnished apartment and have no car, take the marvelous Porto public transportation and Uber/Bolt. Trips farther afield will require trains, planes or automobiles, but that can be planned for. Just got my residence card, so now I can travel a bit.
Love PT, the people, the polyglot of expats from everywhere, the pilgrims humping their backpacks along the coastal sidewalk and the ocean view from my veranda. Only fly in my ointment is what I’ll do when my lease is up March of ‘25(!?!)
Thanks so much for your posts, they’ve covered many things that I was stupidly unaware of—wish you and Denise well and happy!
There’s another option: move to a more favorable EU country. There are amazing places to live where life is cheaper than Portugal (Spain has higher salaries and outside big cities and touristy sea towns, prices are super low. Ditto for Calabria, Friuli, in Italy, Romania and Bulgaria, and all the Balkans). “Digital Nomads” are already leaving a country that is becoming increasingly expensive. Healthcare is so poor even in private hospital, for instance, some prefer to fly abroad 🫠
You are correct, one can move to another country and in western Europe Spain is now the cheapest country. I will however disagree with your comment on healthcare. I have only utilized the private system ... but have received exceptional care and superior outcomes.
I think it is because in general I notice europeans are more attached to "their" healthcare system, and frequently prefer to travel back to their place of origin for it.
Hi Nancy — what a great post! I think about this from time to time, but not because I think I will “want” to leave but because of the possibility of development of major illnesses and needing help from family, but I am getting more and more confident in the healthcare we receive in this country in terms of quality and for sure cost! The one thing I do not have a grasp on yet is how much our income may decrease when we hit the 10year mark for our D7 Visa. I worry we will be paying almost 50% in taxes which would negate the benefits of living here cost wise. I’m just so unfamiliar about how our income would be taxed after the 10 yr period. However, since we’ve only been here two years I just enjoy my life and think a hell of a lot could happen in the next eight years and “I’ll worry about that tomorrow.” Meanwhile, I live in this beautiful country with wonderful people and have so little stress many of my US illnesses have completely disappeared. So although an exit strategy is always somewhere lurking around the periphery, I’m going to enjoy every second of the privilege I have been given to live in a country I love and I’m certain we will work out whatever comes in the future. And besides, being from the US, after November, there may be no country to return to if a certain evil person is installed in office.
I have written about income taxes (after NHR) but here is the answer in a nutshell. https://expatinportugal.substack.com/p/tax-planning Pensions, other than a military pension, and social security will be taxed as ordinary income governed by Portugal's progressive tax scheme. Income from investments (such as capital gains and dividends) will be taxed at 28%. Your tax rate in PT will likely be considerably more than what you might owe in the US and as such I have adjusted for that when calculating what our cost of living will be after NHR.
Thank you again!
This is a very timely post, thank you. I now find myself in the "I'm moving back to the US" group. But not for any of the usual reasons. I am living with ALS, a degenerative disease which is slowly getting worse, and I now need more care. When we moved here to Tavira, my wife was going to be my caregiver. Unfortunately, she was killed in an automobile accident while in the US in 2022 on vacation. I have been living by myself in our two-bedroom apartment and have recently found that I need more help. I have someone coming to me twice each day to make me my meals and help me with other things such as hygiene and getting out. And I know that I will need even more care in the future and so I will be moving back and living with my daughter and her family in Florida. As a veteran I have access to all kinds of support from the VA, which will be a huge help. I would much rather be able to stay here and live out my days in these peaceful and safe surroundings. And even though the cost of living is rising it is still cheaper here than back in the US. I will always consider Portugal to be my second home.
I don't think we will return, but it's a good question to ponder. The thought of going back to the US is frightening, considering all the unpleasant and scary goings-on, but most importantly, I've fallen deeply in love with Portugal.
Many years ago, I took a leave of absence from my tenure track position and moved to Portugal to try it out. I had spent several summers touring the country, as my family was living there. I knew, however, that summer vacation was not the same as living there permanently.
I stayed for a year, had wonderful experiences and decided that I would return after fulfilling my promise to return to the States.
I did so, returned to the States, sold my car and came back after that second year. I was fortunate that I always worked in Portugal and made many long time friends this way.
I finally left Portugal after 16 years, largely because I wanted to live nearer family, but doubt I would have had such a good experience if I had not had that “experimental” first year. So, don’t be afraid to try it out, for an extended period. Many of the complaints I see in various other Portugal groups are about weather. It’s important to experience the seasons before making such a big commitment, imo.
Good luck to all. Rosemary Sullivan
Wise words...Although when I first saw the title of this post I thought you might be referencing an Exit strategy from the U.S. in the event that 45 ends up in the White House again. I bet I wasn't the only one who went there. I am among the hordes of U.S. citizens who are thinking about, if not actually strategizing, that Exit plan.
Keep up the good fight!
Yes, absolutely! Fighting along with terrific allies in the political trenches.
Likewise. It’s a scary thought.
Another fantastic post. We are fortunate that our little family is past the grand-BABY stage and the girls are boarding a SATA flight in a couple of weeks (first time without their parents) to visit us here. Direct flights from JFK to Madeira make family visits easy. We have, however, met a few people who have reached the end of their Non-Habitual Resident Tax Status and have moved out of Portugal - mostly to other European destinations, though, not the US. Thanks for posting.
Great post, as usual. It is important to think about these things, and how you might react to those changes over time. We only have 1 child and we will be encouraging him to attend college in Dublin while we retire to Portugal - most likely somewhere along the silver coast. Our hope is that going to school there he will create friendships, relationships and work connections that will keep him on the correct side of the Atlantic to be near us. It's easier for me as an only - I don't have siblings to feel connected to, by husband has 3 siblings, but Covid really changed how and how often they see each other. So that will make it easier. Everyone needs to ask these questions of themselves and be prepared for the answer and have a plan.
Love this article. I will die here. The door to my previous life in South Africa is bolted closed and the bridges burnt by me. I have embraced this life, learning Portuguese, my son is here,. Edest son and family are now in UK. Youngest son lives in Caribbean. What we had in South Africa are now memories. South Africa has changed and nit for the best.
Oh, those early tee times! Como sempre, a wonderfully thoughtful and humorous post. And, oh the visual images of squalling babies... loved it all!
We refer to Portugal as “the next chapter,” but not necessarily the last chapter of our lives, and are keeping a foothold in our home state (WA). One thing that has changed since I began treatment for breast cancer is our plans for healthcare coverage in the US. We’re now rethinking our budget to make sure we are well covered no matter where we are.
Sim ja pensei, but im sticking to it. I was born here, left at 5, now back at 63 renovating the sncestral home, so maybe not realy an expat just a returnee. I have however a lifetime of cultural divergence, but still weighing everything out, the peace and safety here tips the scales for me, no exit stratagee, going down with the ship if I have too
I think about this almost every day, but not because we have any desire to return to a a nation of deep divisions. We have no idea what we will do if (when) either of us needs skilled care or cannot live independently. Where could we go? We are exploring facilities here in PT, but mostly it's just nursing homes. There may be a few assisted living places. We have as yet to check them out.
Penelope we live in Algarve. During a PT visit I learned that there is an "English home" in central Algarve. When I asked what this was the physical therapist's explanation sounded very much like a progressive care facility in the US offering cottages, apartments, skilled nursing care, etc. She commented that it was very expensive. When I inquired further she explained that some residents were paying €6000/mo...very expensive by PT standards, very cheap by US standards. I suspect there is more than one such facility in PT. One also might consider bringing a full-time carer into your home. Denise and I considered this when we designed our home as the thought of going into a nursing home does not appeal to us.
Thanks, Nancy. Definitely in-home care is attractive. We are renting a 720 sq ft country house, so it could be a tight fit. If the need arises, we could rent a 2 bdrm 2 bath in town with elevator. I am collecting data on potential senior communities, and we might start visiting some in coming years.
This. We don't have a great exit strategy, but we do have one. It's one of the reasons I was able to cull as much as we did before coming here - imagining having to move everything we owned round trip, overseas, was a sobering thought (not just financially) and we decided it was not something we were interested in doing. We purged our lifetimes' worth of belongings like mad and still brought what feels like (probably more than) a decent amount. But, there's something to be said for not having to re-acquire all the things you might need, regardless of where you end up.
There have been several folks living in our town who have left in the past year, all of whom were never expecting to leave. I can't begin to know how hard that decision must have been for them. As for us, if we do end up having to leave, we are certain about one thing: the real estate market in our old area guarantees we can't "go home again".
I appreciate your can't "go home again" sentiment. However, I take some comfort from the CA housing market which over time has seen significant highs and LOWS.
Same with us, sold the condo, opted out of acquiring a storage unit and brought the things we were sentimentally attached to along with us. We refuse to commit to staying or going at this point (it’s been just over a year), so we have a loose plan for if we decide that we want to move back to the US, but right now we have no intention of using it.
Good point, but no real exit strategy for us and no real desire to return to the U.S. When we moved to PT in 2020 we had already been out of the States for 5 years, so we pretty much knew we weren't going back. We have an east/west grandbaby pull, one in Mallorca, ES and the other in Austin, TX, not to mention another son in Portland, OR. We do still have a house in Lake Havasu, AZ that my wife inherited from her mother in 2018 which we use for about 6 weeks a year. Luckily all the boomers retiring there have lead to increased value that has more than covered the carrying cost. At some point in the next 5-10 years we will sell it to buy a place in Mallorca, where our daughter had said she would take care of us.
You have all your bases covered...congrats!
I’m in Valencia and I love it here, but we’ve been to Mallorca a few times and I keep telling my husband that we may “need” to move over there. I grew up on an island, so I think it’s always a bit of a pull for me.