Ah yes... we live on a continent that is trying to implement a circular economy, reduce waste, and encourage recycling. Yet our banks insist on clearing an acre (or hectare, maybe) of trees every time we need to make an administrative change. We've had similar experiences with our bank here. One time the account manager mysteriously went missing after we signed first ream of paper. So we had to do another one. Then when we moved to LIsbon, there was a slightly smaller stack to change address (most of it had to do with data privacy) and 5 months later our account is still not completely moved.
Patience. Tenacity. Wine. These things will get us through!
When buying my apartment I cunningly managed to end up with a lawyer who was born and raised in VRSA although he now lives in Tavira. Being a local, he knew everybody and went with me to CGD to set up my account so I didn't have to struggle. That's not to say I haven't had some problems in the bank from time to time but fortunately the online system is very good. Certainly bank "etiquette" is behind UK style too - the game is to play the old lady gambit like the locals.
I'm just curious why it is when I read something like, this where people are just relating their experience(s), other folks take as an attempt to "change Portugal". Sharing is sharing. Logic is logic (to some). I never thought for a second that Nancy was attempting to exert any force on anyone to change. Just making observations. Am I correct, or confused (or, perhaps some of both?).
Why is it that Americans and folks from the UK move to a country and try and change it into the place they just left from. If you want efficiency and pickle ball move to Florida. That maddening bureaucracy and general inefficiency is what makes Portugal so appealing. Embrace it. I say this as someone who had a holiday home in France for 20 years and listened many times to a Brit or an American wanting to change our lovely small French town into their version of the 21st century. While it may make for good stories for your compatriots (and I enjoy yours), think it through. Abandon the idea of dragging Portugal into the modern world and enjoy what moved you to go there in the first place.
Kudos for your perseverance. I hear more and more Americans among others have had enough of the nonsense and are packing. Please stay: Portugal needs more people like you and Denise to help change its nonsensical ways. Its perennial problem is the "cunha" or nepotism a curse stiffling competence and efficiency. I'm convinced It can be solved thru poltically mediated draconian meritocracy with leverage from an assertive Expat community and stubborn entrepreneurs. (Money talks).
Yes, Multibanco, Loja do Cidadão and Alentejo wines are examples of top notch achievements in my opinion.
PS: Have you considered Citi for your banking needs? Maybe less bureaucratic...
Arthur, I have no interest in changing Portugal. While I find some customs frustrating at times there is so much more that I love. This is not my country....I don't feel I have a right to impose American ways on them.
re Citi...I gave up my US phone number and they are unable to do 2-step verification without it. This even though they promised me there would not be an issue when I moved.
Since our arrival here, my bank card has not worked for online purchases (the 3D secure system rejects it.) We have a dedicated "account manager" that we pay a monthly fee for. For every issue we've brought to her, she has told us to call the customer service number. She has not solved a single problem. When I've called customer service about my bank card, I've gotten everything from "someone will call you back" to "just uninstall and reinstall the app" (insert eye roll here.) Bottom line, my card doesn't work and I can't get anyone to help me. I would threaten to just take our business elsewhere, but I am 100% sure they will not care.
Who are you banking with. We are with Abanca and our bank representative is free is always available. He researches and resolves every issue. And we can make purchases online. Switch banks!
We are with Millenium, but yes, if we can't get this issue resolved soon, we will have to switch banks. That will be a royal pain, but having to ask my husband for his debit card every time I want to buy something online is ridiculous. Sigh...
The example of no other employee stepping up, even if they are not busy, is a thing we have experienced in Denmark as well. I wonder if it's a "stay in your lane" approach, e.g., don't encroach on someone else's responsibility, whereas in the U.S., it's just considered good customer service to step in and help. If this is common across Europe, no wonder Europeans are so startled with that kind of experience in the U.S./Canada.
We've also experienced "I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not going to find out". Here, I needed to open a business account. I asked the personal banking rep what I needed to do--she told me to go to a specific branch, in person, and do it. I went to the branch, and the person there said she didn't know, and gave me a phone number to call. The support person on the phone...wait for it...told me I could just do it online, but didn't know how.
Sometimes I wonder how these places function on a daily basis.
Thanks for letting us know that the "not stepping in" process is not unique to PT. I wondered if there was a concern about the daily deposit amount being incorrect or that there was a cross training issue.
our perspective is that this isn't an expectation here (this has included governmental services, private school employees, and grocery store workers)...maybe there's no incentive to do so? But it results in a weird situation where no one shares knowledge, or experience, and everyone suffers for it :/
It all drives me crazy. It's a wonder the country functions at all. I want to return to the UK but l can't because the tenant refused to leave, he is in breach of contract but it will take meat least a year to take him to court.
Torsten, I am not sure I understand your question. Our club status permits us to use the VRSA Sports Complex, which is owned and run by the city, to use that facility for free. I don't believe it applies to all facilities.
Your blog brought back memories.
Ah yes... we live on a continent that is trying to implement a circular economy, reduce waste, and encourage recycling. Yet our banks insist on clearing an acre (or hectare, maybe) of trees every time we need to make an administrative change. We've had similar experiences with our bank here. One time the account manager mysteriously went missing after we signed first ream of paper. So we had to do another one. Then when we moved to LIsbon, there was a slightly smaller stack to change address (most of it had to do with data privacy) and 5 months later our account is still not completely moved.
Patience. Tenacity. Wine. These things will get us through!
When buying my apartment I cunningly managed to end up with a lawyer who was born and raised in VRSA although he now lives in Tavira. Being a local, he knew everybody and went with me to CGD to set up my account so I didn't have to struggle. That's not to say I haven't had some problems in the bank from time to time but fortunately the online system is very good. Certainly bank "etiquette" is behind UK style too - the game is to play the old lady gambit like the locals.
Yes, we take Ana along for these kinds of things because she is born and raised here. Often it helps a lot...this time, not so much.
I'm just curious why it is when I read something like, this where people are just relating their experience(s), other folks take as an attempt to "change Portugal". Sharing is sharing. Logic is logic (to some). I never thought for a second that Nancy was attempting to exert any force on anyone to change. Just making observations. Am I correct, or confused (or, perhaps some of both?).
Why is it that Americans and folks from the UK move to a country and try and change it into the place they just left from. If you want efficiency and pickle ball move to Florida. That maddening bureaucracy and general inefficiency is what makes Portugal so appealing. Embrace it. I say this as someone who had a holiday home in France for 20 years and listened many times to a Brit or an American wanting to change our lovely small French town into their version of the 21st century. While it may make for good stories for your compatriots (and I enjoy yours), think it through. Abandon the idea of dragging Portugal into the modern world and enjoy what moved you to go there in the first place.
I agree...I have no desire to change the culture of Portugal.
Kudos for your perseverance. I hear more and more Americans among others have had enough of the nonsense and are packing. Please stay: Portugal needs more people like you and Denise to help change its nonsensical ways. Its perennial problem is the "cunha" or nepotism a curse stiffling competence and efficiency. I'm convinced It can be solved thru poltically mediated draconian meritocracy with leverage from an assertive Expat community and stubborn entrepreneurs. (Money talks).
Yes, Multibanco, Loja do Cidadão and Alentejo wines are examples of top notch achievements in my opinion.
PS: Have you considered Citi for your banking needs? Maybe less bureaucratic...
Happy Days!
Arthur, I have no interest in changing Portugal. While I find some customs frustrating at times there is so much more that I love. This is not my country....I don't feel I have a right to impose American ways on them.
re Citi...I gave up my US phone number and they are unable to do 2-step verification without it. This even though they promised me there would not be an issue when I moved.
Since our arrival here, my bank card has not worked for online purchases (the 3D secure system rejects it.) We have a dedicated "account manager" that we pay a monthly fee for. For every issue we've brought to her, she has told us to call the customer service number. She has not solved a single problem. When I've called customer service about my bank card, I've gotten everything from "someone will call you back" to "just uninstall and reinstall the app" (insert eye roll here.) Bottom line, my card doesn't work and I can't get anyone to help me. I would threaten to just take our business elsewhere, but I am 100% sure they will not care.
#welcometoportugal
Who are you banking with. We are with Abanca and our bank representative is free is always available. He researches and resolves every issue. And we can make purchases online. Switch banks!
We are with Millenium, but yes, if we can't get this issue resolved soon, we will have to switch banks. That will be a royal pain, but having to ask my husband for his debit card every time I want to buy something online is ridiculous. Sigh...
The example of no other employee stepping up, even if they are not busy, is a thing we have experienced in Denmark as well. I wonder if it's a "stay in your lane" approach, e.g., don't encroach on someone else's responsibility, whereas in the U.S., it's just considered good customer service to step in and help. If this is common across Europe, no wonder Europeans are so startled with that kind of experience in the U.S./Canada.
We've also experienced "I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not going to find out". Here, I needed to open a business account. I asked the personal banking rep what I needed to do--she told me to go to a specific branch, in person, and do it. I went to the branch, and the person there said she didn't know, and gave me a phone number to call. The support person on the phone...wait for it...told me I could just do it online, but didn't know how.
Sometimes I wonder how these places function on a daily basis.
Thanks for letting us know that the "not stepping in" process is not unique to PT. I wondered if there was a concern about the daily deposit amount being incorrect or that there was a cross training issue.
our perspective is that this isn't an expectation here (this has included governmental services, private school employees, and grocery store workers)...maybe there's no incentive to do so? But it results in a weird situation where no one shares knowledge, or experience, and everyone suffers for it :/
It all drives me crazy. It's a wonder the country functions at all. I want to return to the UK but l can't because the tenant refused to leave, he is in breach of contract but it will take meat least a year to take him to court.
Sorry you are so disappointed with Portugal...yes, things move at a different pace here. But we still love it.
How does the pickleballl facility get reimbursed if a sanctioned Club uses their court?
Torsten, I am not sure I understand your question. Our club status permits us to use the VRSA Sports Complex, which is owned and run by the city, to use that facility for free. I don't believe it applies to all facilities.