Thanks for the mention and the quote. I 100% get not going to Russia, and I wouldn't go either. Some bridges are just too far.
But I think the case for Hungary -- at least Budapest -- is a bit more complicated. Hundreds of thousands of city residents turned out at Pride to defy Orban. So rather than punish them to try and get at Orban, maybe you could go there, meet with some LGBTQ folks, support some LGBTQ businesses and then use your platform to write more about what's happening there. Praise the good people and shine a light on Orban. It won't be much but I believe every little bit matters.
'In other words, we think vague, informal boycotts usually only succeed in making the boycotter feel good' my sentiments exactly. I grew up in a complicated country with world wide boycotts. It really only hurts the locals trying to make a living. If you scratch the surface of any political leadership, Morroco included, you'd likely not want to visit any Country.
I love that quote by B&M! A lot of travellers I’ve talked to say that a people are not their government, which I think is a good reminder. There are lots of people who don’t support their governments and it feels like it would be a good idea to visit and support them, or at least not boycott and punish them for a government they don’t support. But it’s hard! Especially when you have to factor in personal safety too.
For example, I have no interest in going to the US right now because of the current administration and due to safety concerns. But I know so many Americans also struggle with those things in their own country, so should I boycott them? Hard to know.
I’m boycotting America now. In October 2024, when we were hopeful, D & I discussed plans to visit friends in the US. After the election we postponed the trip. Canadians who have changed there winter travel plans have definitely had an impact on FL, Az rental market!
If I didn't have Granddaughters in the US, I'd be boycotting too! They were born in Canada and only moved to the US in the last 2+ years - wish they'd have stayed in Vancouver!
I am boycotting too which is a shame as I am ageing and finding long flights difficult but I would love to be able to visit my Californian relatives, especially as my cousin has been diagnosed with Parkinson's. p.s. Egypt - wonderful, you'll get to see the brand new museum.
My only immediate family is my older sister, and one aunt and uncle. He just turned 89, and she just turned 78, and they're not really able to travel. The *only* reason I will return to the US is the two of them. Once they're gone, I'll never be back. As it is, I will take the most direct route possible to reach them, and I will do my best not to spend a penny of my discretionary spending on anything in the US. If I could figure out how to extract my 401k from the US without going broke doing it, I would. But that's not possible. But what I can do is to limited to the extent possible how much of my money stays in, or flows back to the US, especially to companies like Amazon, Target, and Meta.
My husband and I have a different view on travel, albeit we're white liberal heterosexuals. We roamed in our vintage RV for 14 years all over the US, two also roaming black cats in tow. We never met a mean person, we only met those who leaned in to help. The south? AZ? FL? Lovely people. We discussed freely any topic with anyone we met. Our feeling is always lead with love, be curious not furious.
That's a great attitude and I agree that kindness is ALWAYS a good idea. It's hard for me to reconcile the one-on-one kindness a lot Americans in red states display with the overarching cruelty the majority of them vote for cycle after cycle. Unfortunately, my fuse on compassion and willingness to "tolerate" is short.
I think I’d reframe “informal boycott” as “places I’m not willing to travel for ethical reasons.” A boycott has to be organized to have real impact. As an example: quite a lot of people are “boycotting” this very platform because its owners are pretty overt fascists. But because it’s not an actual boycott, it’s not really widespread enough to have impact.
Having said that, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to take a principled stance on where you’ll travel. I’d only gently push back on your perception of Russians as humorless and robotic. I spent time there when it was still the Soviet Union, and while it’s true that Russians can be pretty stoic in public, in private life they can be warm, generous, a lot of fun to be around. That’s one of the tough things about tours vs immersive experiences: it’s hard to really know people this way.
Thanks for presenting this issue so thoughtfully! There’s no real map for this stuff, but I appreciate the way you try to look at all the angles.
Hi Nancy. Wonderful food for thought. I refuse to step foot in all of the southern US states. I wouldn’t step foot in Texas except my sons live there. I don’t want be somewhere where there is institutionalized oppression. ——but I DID go to Budapest a couple of years ago. We were on a cruise and it stopped there. I did think about Victor Orban and especially how Trump idolizes him and almost didn’t get off. In the end though, curiosity won out and I can honestly say it was a beautiful vibrant city and the people seemed happy. They have a thriving Jewish culture we visited and the people were lovely, and ultimately I justified it by the fact that I was giving money to people who have to live in that country.
I’m getting ready to go back to the USA to see my boys and I am sincerely compromised by what I see the government doing to innocent people. I have friends there and they pretend as though everything is hunky dory. In conversations, they tell me they feel there is nothing they can do. I don’t feel that way, but I don’t have to live there anymore.
It is so difficult to oppose what governments are doing and think about the people who live in those countries who are just trying to have a good life and make a living and somehow make life as normal as possible.
Unfortunately for America, there is oppression against so many people now it is nauseating yet I return to see my kids and I always will. I have to live with the knowledge that I spend my money there and go against my beliefs but sometimes I think it is not possible to apply our beliefs consistently due to the fact that real human beings are part of those oppressive systems and they don’t choose to be part of them.
Sorry for going on about this but it really pulls my heart.
Concerning Budapest: If it would be your first trip, I would say go. I would not go now, but I am fortunate in having had the chance to visit during a very brief period of genuine democracy in that nation.
My maternal grandmother also emigrated from Hungary, in the 1920s. But in the mid-1930s, when my mother was 11, the family had to go back so my grandmother could get mental health care they couldn’t afford in the US. This was just as an earlier round of fascism was taking hold in the country. My family is Jewish; they got out again just in time. My wife edited a beautiful memoir my mother wrote about that year. In the late 1990s, when our own daughter was 11, my mother took us all to Budapest to meet the surviving relatives.
During that trip, I saw what I still consider to be the most moving monument in all of Europe. It’s this one: https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/0f/49/2f/9b/la-statue-sur-son-pont.jpg?w=1000&h=-1&s=1 There’s nothing monumental about it. It was just across from the Parliament building. It depicted a pensive-looking man looking toward Parliament, standing half-way across a sculpted bridge. The man was Imre Nagy, the reform-minded Communist who led Hungary during the 1956 uprising before it was crushed by the Soviet Union. A guide said the position of the statue, and Nagy at the midpoint, symbolized how he got the nation half-way to freedom.
Reportedly declaring that Nagy had not been anti-communist enough, Victor Orban had it taken down and moved to an obscure location.
Yes, we do consider politics and social norms when traveling. For example, I would love to explore China but on our one overnight in Shanghai after a cruise, I felt that the surveillance was just crushing. Russia is definitely out for the foreseeable future too. We did go to Budapest and noticed that people are not blind to what's going on. And of course, here in Fukistan (Florida), we can see reduced numbers of foreigners coming because they are avoiding the USA.
I really appreciate your comments about the moral dilemma of visiting countries whose moral/ethical/political environments conflict with your beliefs. Drawing that line is very tough and I think that if you get TOO dogmatic you'll just cower in your living room for the rest of your life. That having been said, as a gay man, I have a real problem with spending my tourism dollars in countries that don't think I have a right to exist. I spent 1 day in Casablanca during a cruise and while I found it interesting enough for a 1-day city tour, I never need to go back there or anywhere else in Morocco ever again. Unless things change drastically, I will never go to Russia or Hungary. But I've been to China several times. Is that better than Hungary??? That's hard to say. My partner is much less strident than I and wants to see as much of the world as possible. At times, I envy the laissez-faire attitude, but I just can't in good faith spend money in a place that outlaws my existence, regardless of how spectacular the architecture is or how wonderful the people are. So, I do the best I can to stay true to my convictions and enjoy the places I do choose to visit.
I agree with many of the comments here…I developed a habit of immediately boycotting any business, organization, country, etc. that I read or heard a credible story about a difference in my values. But after a while, it began to feel like if I dug deep enough, I could find reasons to discontinue my support for practically everything. And to the point about boycotts only working when well organized…it’s hard to fight a battle on your own. There is strength in numbers and boycotts are purely a numbers game. So instead I have limited my use of businesses like Amazon, Meta, etc. and when choosing places to visit, set personal boundaries for how much I want to engage and support. Although Morocco seems like a place I should avoid, I’ve visited twice and the reality is it is a very interesting, dynamic and surprisingly gay…at least Marrakesh. Why would I deny myself that experience? In the end who loses? More than likely, me.
Yes, on the question of considering politics and social norms. And no, can't separate the Nile and pyramids from the military dictatorship. Not to forget how camels are treated. True, people are not the government, yet, how much of tourists' moneys go to the people in authoritarian, militaristic, oppresive regimes? In my experience, moral clarity is essential in navigating the human world, as we swim in the waters of such exquisite balance of suffering and joy!
I find myself agreeing with you so often that I can’t wait to share a glass of wine 🍷 in our terrace with you two in Tavira.
We changed travel plans this spring because we did not want to support Orban even though we have wanted so much to visit Buda and Pest. Also torn about going to Türkiye. Visiting Russia now is like visiting Jupiter. No need (secretly I’d love to see that country) but will not do until the regime changes.
And yes Nancy, we put our money, life time and energy on what/who we choose to support. We are human and values and passions are not clear cut.
Do I consider politics or social norms when you make your travel plans?
No not really. It gets too complicated. I am not very interested in LGBTQ issues, but it's nice to visit countries where the lifestyle and norms are different from Denmark, where I live.
Countries like the USA, Brazil, and South Korea.
I would consider safety issues and If you can go where you want without any interference from the authorities.
I wouldn't go to North Korea or Libya, but happily to Hungary even if I'm no fan of Victor Orban.
Thanks for the mention and the quote. I 100% get not going to Russia, and I wouldn't go either. Some bridges are just too far.
But I think the case for Hungary -- at least Budapest -- is a bit more complicated. Hundreds of thousands of city residents turned out at Pride to defy Orban. So rather than punish them to try and get at Orban, maybe you could go there, meet with some LGBTQ folks, support some LGBTQ businesses and then use your platform to write more about what's happening there. Praise the good people and shine a light on Orban. It won't be much but I believe every little bit matters.
Any suggestions for websites that feature LGBTQ short term rentals and/or restaurants?
I've never used this and don't know anything about them. I found them via a search:
https://apartmanbudapest.com/
On “VisitLGBTQI.com” there’s a “Budapest LGBTQ Guide” with restaurants, cafés and more.
https://visitlgbtqi.com/guide/budapest-lgbtq-guide
'In other words, we think vague, informal boycotts usually only succeed in making the boycotter feel good' my sentiments exactly. I grew up in a complicated country with world wide boycotts. It really only hurts the locals trying to make a living. If you scratch the surface of any political leadership, Morroco included, you'd likely not want to visit any Country.
I love that quote by B&M! A lot of travellers I’ve talked to say that a people are not their government, which I think is a good reminder. There are lots of people who don’t support their governments and it feels like it would be a good idea to visit and support them, or at least not boycott and punish them for a government they don’t support. But it’s hard! Especially when you have to factor in personal safety too.
For example, I have no interest in going to the US right now because of the current administration and due to safety concerns. But I know so many Americans also struggle with those things in their own country, so should I boycott them? Hard to know.
I’m boycotting America now. In October 2024, when we were hopeful, D & I discussed plans to visit friends in the US. After the election we postponed the trip. Canadians who have changed there winter travel plans have definitely had an impact on FL, Az rental market!
If I didn't have Granddaughters in the US, I'd be boycotting too! They were born in Canada and only moved to the US in the last 2+ years - wish they'd have stayed in Vancouver!
I am boycotting too which is a shame as I am ageing and finding long flights difficult but I would love to be able to visit my Californian relatives, especially as my cousin has been diagnosed with Parkinson's. p.s. Egypt - wonderful, you'll get to see the brand new museum.
My only immediate family is my older sister, and one aunt and uncle. He just turned 89, and she just turned 78, and they're not really able to travel. The *only* reason I will return to the US is the two of them. Once they're gone, I'll never be back. As it is, I will take the most direct route possible to reach them, and I will do my best not to spend a penny of my discretionary spending on anything in the US. If I could figure out how to extract my 401k from the US without going broke doing it, I would. But that's not possible. But what I can do is to limited to the extent possible how much of my money stays in, or flows back to the US, especially to companies like Amazon, Target, and Meta.
My husband and I have a different view on travel, albeit we're white liberal heterosexuals. We roamed in our vintage RV for 14 years all over the US, two also roaming black cats in tow. We never met a mean person, we only met those who leaned in to help. The south? AZ? FL? Lovely people. We discussed freely any topic with anyone we met. Our feeling is always lead with love, be curious not furious.
That's a great attitude and I agree that kindness is ALWAYS a good idea. It's hard for me to reconcile the one-on-one kindness a lot Americans in red states display with the overarching cruelty the majority of them vote for cycle after cycle. Unfortunately, my fuse on compassion and willingness to "tolerate" is short.
I think I’d reframe “informal boycott” as “places I’m not willing to travel for ethical reasons.” A boycott has to be organized to have real impact. As an example: quite a lot of people are “boycotting” this very platform because its owners are pretty overt fascists. But because it’s not an actual boycott, it’s not really widespread enough to have impact.
Having said that, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to take a principled stance on where you’ll travel. I’d only gently push back on your perception of Russians as humorless and robotic. I spent time there when it was still the Soviet Union, and while it’s true that Russians can be pretty stoic in public, in private life they can be warm, generous, a lot of fun to be around. That’s one of the tough things about tours vs immersive experiences: it’s hard to really know people this way.
Thanks for presenting this issue so thoughtfully! There’s no real map for this stuff, but I appreciate the way you try to look at all the angles.
Hi Nancy. Wonderful food for thought. I refuse to step foot in all of the southern US states. I wouldn’t step foot in Texas except my sons live there. I don’t want be somewhere where there is institutionalized oppression. ——but I DID go to Budapest a couple of years ago. We were on a cruise and it stopped there. I did think about Victor Orban and especially how Trump idolizes him and almost didn’t get off. In the end though, curiosity won out and I can honestly say it was a beautiful vibrant city and the people seemed happy. They have a thriving Jewish culture we visited and the people were lovely, and ultimately I justified it by the fact that I was giving money to people who have to live in that country.
I’m getting ready to go back to the USA to see my boys and I am sincerely compromised by what I see the government doing to innocent people. I have friends there and they pretend as though everything is hunky dory. In conversations, they tell me they feel there is nothing they can do. I don’t feel that way, but I don’t have to live there anymore.
It is so difficult to oppose what governments are doing and think about the people who live in those countries who are just trying to have a good life and make a living and somehow make life as normal as possible.
Unfortunately for America, there is oppression against so many people now it is nauseating yet I return to see my kids and I always will. I have to live with the knowledge that I spend my money there and go against my beliefs but sometimes I think it is not possible to apply our beliefs consistently due to the fact that real human beings are part of those oppressive systems and they don’t choose to be part of them.
Sorry for going on about this but it really pulls my heart.
Concerning Budapest: If it would be your first trip, I would say go. I would not go now, but I am fortunate in having had the chance to visit during a very brief period of genuine democracy in that nation.
My maternal grandmother also emigrated from Hungary, in the 1920s. But in the mid-1930s, when my mother was 11, the family had to go back so my grandmother could get mental health care they couldn’t afford in the US. This was just as an earlier round of fascism was taking hold in the country. My family is Jewish; they got out again just in time. My wife edited a beautiful memoir my mother wrote about that year. In the late 1990s, when our own daughter was 11, my mother took us all to Budapest to meet the surviving relatives.
During that trip, I saw what I still consider to be the most moving monument in all of Europe. It’s this one: https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-o/0f/49/2f/9b/la-statue-sur-son-pont.jpg?w=1000&h=-1&s=1 There’s nothing monumental about it. It was just across from the Parliament building. It depicted a pensive-looking man looking toward Parliament, standing half-way across a sculpted bridge. The man was Imre Nagy, the reform-minded Communist who led Hungary during the 1956 uprising before it was crushed by the Soviet Union. A guide said the position of the statue, and Nagy at the midpoint, symbolized how he got the nation half-way to freedom.
Reportedly declaring that Nagy had not been anti-communist enough, Victor Orban had it taken down and moved to an obscure location.
Yes, we do consider politics and social norms when traveling. For example, I would love to explore China but on our one overnight in Shanghai after a cruise, I felt that the surveillance was just crushing. Russia is definitely out for the foreseeable future too. We did go to Budapest and noticed that people are not blind to what's going on. And of course, here in Fukistan (Florida), we can see reduced numbers of foreigners coming because they are avoiding the USA.
Regarding your question
“ Do you consider politics or social norms when you make your travel plans?”
Absolutely
I really appreciate your comments about the moral dilemma of visiting countries whose moral/ethical/political environments conflict with your beliefs. Drawing that line is very tough and I think that if you get TOO dogmatic you'll just cower in your living room for the rest of your life. That having been said, as a gay man, I have a real problem with spending my tourism dollars in countries that don't think I have a right to exist. I spent 1 day in Casablanca during a cruise and while I found it interesting enough for a 1-day city tour, I never need to go back there or anywhere else in Morocco ever again. Unless things change drastically, I will never go to Russia or Hungary. But I've been to China several times. Is that better than Hungary??? That's hard to say. My partner is much less strident than I and wants to see as much of the world as possible. At times, I envy the laissez-faire attitude, but I just can't in good faith spend money in a place that outlaws my existence, regardless of how spectacular the architecture is or how wonderful the people are. So, I do the best I can to stay true to my convictions and enjoy the places I do choose to visit.
Great article - thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Budapest was my favorite city when we went on Viking’s Grande European Cruise. We stayed there in apartment for 3days and found people friendly.
I agree with many of the comments here…I developed a habit of immediately boycotting any business, organization, country, etc. that I read or heard a credible story about a difference in my values. But after a while, it began to feel like if I dug deep enough, I could find reasons to discontinue my support for practically everything. And to the point about boycotts only working when well organized…it’s hard to fight a battle on your own. There is strength in numbers and boycotts are purely a numbers game. So instead I have limited my use of businesses like Amazon, Meta, etc. and when choosing places to visit, set personal boundaries for how much I want to engage and support. Although Morocco seems like a place I should avoid, I’ve visited twice and the reality is it is a very interesting, dynamic and surprisingly gay…at least Marrakesh. Why would I deny myself that experience? In the end who loses? More than likely, me.
Yes, on the question of considering politics and social norms. And no, can't separate the Nile and pyramids from the military dictatorship. Not to forget how camels are treated. True, people are not the government, yet, how much of tourists' moneys go to the people in authoritarian, militaristic, oppresive regimes? In my experience, moral clarity is essential in navigating the human world, as we swim in the waters of such exquisite balance of suffering and joy!
I find myself agreeing with you so often that I can’t wait to share a glass of wine 🍷 in our terrace with you two in Tavira.
We changed travel plans this spring because we did not want to support Orban even though we have wanted so much to visit Buda and Pest. Also torn about going to Türkiye. Visiting Russia now is like visiting Jupiter. No need (secretly I’d love to see that country) but will not do until the regime changes.
And yes Nancy, we put our money, life time and energy on what/who we choose to support. We are human and values and passions are not clear cut.
Thanks for your writing.
Rossana
You live your values. Kudos.
Do I consider politics or social norms when you make your travel plans?
No not really. It gets too complicated. I am not very interested in LGBTQ issues, but it's nice to visit countries where the lifestyle and norms are different from Denmark, where I live.
Countries like the USA, Brazil, and South Korea.
I would consider safety issues and If you can go where you want without any interference from the authorities.
I wouldn't go to North Korea or Libya, but happily to Hungary even if I'm no fan of Victor Orban.